Episode 14 “Rotational Program for New Graduates”
Rotational Program Podcast Transcript
(0:09 - 1:47)
Kirsten Nielsen (KN)
Hello, and welcome to Expanding the Possible. I'm Kirsten Nielsen. On today's episode, we're showcasing HH Angus' Rotational Program.
This is a program where new graduate hires are assigned to one of the divisions at HH Angus and, after a set term, they transition or rotate through to other divisions. To explain the ‘why and how’ of that, I'm joined by Courtney Fleming, Human Resources Facilitator for the program, Tula Misakis, who is an Operations Partner in the program and a mentor to new grads, and Madeleine Roll, who is a recent graduate of the program. Courtney, let's start with the core purpose or philosophy behind this initiative.
What was the motivation for HH Angus to launch the Rotational Program?
Courtney Fleming (CF): The decision to create a Rotational Program really came from our desire to enhance the employee experience and set our people up for long-term success. We saw an opportunity to design a program that not only supports retention and engagement but also helps employees build a broad set of skills really early in their careers. At its core, the Rotational Program is about matching people to the right teams and divisions, but also encouraging a big-picture understanding and fostering that innovation and business acumen that folks learn early in their career.
And it also really strengthens our ability to plan for the future by making our workforce more agile and adaptable, while giving managers better visibility into the talent and resources that are available across the firm.
KN: I mentioned in my introduction that the usual term, the usual rotation is about six months, but how long is the overall Rotational Program for new grads?
CF: Yeah, you got it. Six months is our standard rotation time frame, and we do three of those.
(1:47 - 3:04)
KN: So, three six-month rotations for all of our grads coming in. Is this a common type of program in the engineering sector? How does HH Angus' program compare to, say, those of other consulting engineering firms?
CF: No, it's not common at all. The Rotational Program structure is actually quite unique in the industry, and it's a differentiator for us and something that we're hoping to continue to leverage excitement with our grads, but also foster that strong attraction of talent coming into the firm and really encouraging folks to join our program. So, no, it's not common at all.
KN: How do you match a new grad hire to the program? Does that happen when you're in the hiring process with them, and what sort of criteria goes into the decision of who participates?
CF: Yes. So, during our recruiting cycle, we really look for some indicators from the grads about where their skill set might be best utilized in the company. We try to match them into divisions based on that, but really, all of our grads are welcome to go to any of our divisions. We want to ensure that they get the rich experience of trying different divisions and working on different projects and leveraging their skill sets in different ways coming into the Rotational Program. So, we try to align, but also allow for some flexibility for them to be able to rotate and get that experience.
(3:05 - 3:45)
KN: Madeleine, tell us how you came to participate in the Rotational Program. What was that initial part like?
Madeleine Roll (MR): So, initially, I found the Rotational Program at a career fair at Queen's University, so that was really exciting to hear about and, as Courtney touched upon, not many other companies are doing a Rotational Program, so I think it really brings new grads to the company as an interest because you get to try three different jobs in one.
KN: Which divisions were you personally involved with? I mentioned earlier, you're a graduate of the program now, so we're looking back in hindsight, but which ones were you working in?
MR: I have been involved in technology, commercial, and healthcare throughout my time at HH Angus.
(3:46 - 4:57)
KN: So, when you were moving, say you're moving from technology to commercial or technology to healthcare, how did the onboarding process work when you moved from one division to the other?
MR: The onboarding process was quite seamless. What HR does is they set meetings between yourself and the new grad you're taking over, yourself and the new grad who's taking your position, as well as you with your new manager. So, you get to see where you're going, you get to advise someone on who's taking your position, as well as meet with your new manager and discuss your goals for the new division.
KN: Oh, that's a really interesting way to approach it. I didn't realize that you were also collaborating with other grads as they moved around, too. I think that's a really neat aspect of it. Did you find any surprises as you moved from one division to the next? I'm thinking of things like changes in the pace of work or the speed to market for project deliverables. I know, for example, in the commercial division, if you're doing tenant work, the speed to market is much faster than, for example, if you're working in health on a hospital. So, were there changes in that kind of aspect of what you did or the social culture, even within the divisions?
MR: Yeah, I would say there's many different aspects to each different division.
(4:58 - 5:27)
One aspect is that you mentioned is the work speed of the projects, depending on which division you work on and especially which projects you're working on. A project could be anywhere from two years to two months. So, it varies and I think it's really interesting to be on the different types of projects to see one throughout your whole rotation in the two months from start to finish, as well as work on a bigger scale project that's more complicated that has more niche skill sets.
(5:28 - 8:14)
As well as for culture, I think the culture between the different divisions and as well as the different teams can vastly vary. Some people are really outgoing, some people are more to themselves. It's really a great mix and you can find whatever you're looking for.
KN: That's great. How did you balance the learning aspect of it versus delivering value? And I think this is probably true outside the rotational program as well, but how do you balance getting up to speed and also doing the actual work that's expected of you as a new employee?
MR: I think that's a great question. I think it's always a hard balancing act, but I think you really learn by doing.
So, when you get a task that obviously provides value to a project, you'll learn how to do it, especially through mentorship and support throughout the division. I find that whoever assigns you said task will often support you with questions in your learning.
KN: That's great. Tula, when you're looking ahead to a new cohort of grads in the program, what are your responsibilities as a mentor to that group or to an individual?
Tula Mitsakis (TM): So, as a mentor to the group, I schedule time to meet with everybody in the middle of their rotation, just to see how things are going, if they have any feedback that we can take back to HR or operations, just to help modify the program and make it better with time. On an individual level, as a mentor, I'm more focused on a person and what they want to do in their career. That varies from person to person. Some people might want to get their licensure, and I ultimately just provide support to help them get there.
KN: Courtney, how do you ensure that the work that's being done by the new grads in the program has both a training value for them, but it also has sort of real-world productive value for HH Angus in getting the work out the door?
CF: Our grads are all going through a new grad training program at the same time that they're working through the divisions, and this training program can sometimes last up to a year, where they're getting some guidance and some boot camp sessions from our subject matter experts across the firm.
We have a lot of tenure here at HH Angus, so they're leaning on all of those folks for support, but we also encourage them to connect with their teams and their project teams. So, they're asking good questions as they're working through projects and as they're working through problems, but they're also getting that learning from some of our leaders across the firm.
KN: Madeline, as Courtney was just saying, we have a lot of senior people at HH Angus who have decades of very important and significant experience in their area of specialization.
(8:14 - 9:47)
What support or mentorship have you received or did you receive during your rotations?
MR: During my rotations, I received a lot of mentorship, especially in each division. I find that you'll meet people on your team or people who give you tasks, your manager, and you'll form a mentorship bond with them in a conversation to ask questions, to feel comfortable with them, and things like that, as well as expert leads. Often, you can reach out to them, you see them at the coffee maker. It's a very open environment for questions and learning.
KN: Tula, as a mentor, what do you see as kind of a long-term benefit of mentorship?
TM: I mean, it fosters a certain culture of just openness, open communication, and the better we can collaborate internally, the better we're going to be collaborating externally and providing better product to our clients. So, having a mentor and being a mentor are both beneficial for those reasons.
KN: When you're doing the check-in meetings you were talking about with new grads in the middle of their term with a division, is there a formal structure for that? Is it more of an informal conversation? How do you find it typically works?
TM: So, we have both options. It's formal in the sense that in the middle of a rotation, I'll schedule time with each of the RPs to just discuss how things are going. And then, informally, I also just check in as I see people in the office.
(9:47 - 9:56)
I keep that door of communication open. So, if there's any issue or if they have any questions, they can always come to me. So, that's the more informal part of it.
(9:57 - 10:14)
KN: You also have a learning objective list I've heard about. What does that entail?
TM: So, that learning objective checklist is ultimately like a rolling report card, and it's a chance for an RP to record what they have learned in each division that they visit.
(10:15 - 10:41)
And how that benefits them is they can see, okay, I've done XYZ, but I'd really like to learn these other topics. So, they can take that to their manager in their next rotation, and that time will be carved out for them to learn these certain topics that they maybe haven't had a chance to learn. And then, it also benefits the manager because they can see where someone's skill set is and then utilize that for any projects that they might need them for.
(10:42 - 14:42)
KN: That seems important. That's great. Courtney, does HR have feedback channels available to, let's say, both grads and supervisors for the rotational program?
CF: Yes, all of our grads are part of our performance management process, but it's a little bit different with our rotational program because they're doing shorter stints in the divisions as opposed to a full year that we would do our typical performance process with. But the way that we've designed the program is that the grads will set goals at the beginning of their rotations with their managers and, by the end of their rotation, they go through a rotation review, which is quite similar to a performance review to go through their attainment to those goals, discuss any feedback, and share any things that they'd like to see the grad work on going forward. And then, that information is shared manager to manager.
So, when the grad is transitioning to their new manager, the managers will connect and discuss if there's any skill gaps or areas where the grad can get some more focused learning or which projects they may be interested or where their interests lie. And then, the opportunity for the grad to meet with their new manager and their old manager at that time really helps set them up for success so they can set new goals, work on some skills that maybe they've been developing, and continue to kind of grow into their career with us.
KN: That's a great answer, and I think you actually answered my next question about assessment. So, let me ask you instead, are there any common challenges you see for participants as they move between divisions or the things that come up sort of again and again in terms of a challenge and how to manage that turnover?
CF: As Tula had mentioned, one of the challenges that I think our grads face is change. And change can be hard, but it does promote that adaptability and, you know, a skill set for our grads to be able to adjust to a new environment, adjust to a new manager, adjust to a new workload, new projects, new project teams really quickly. And I think as consulting engineers, that really sets them up for success into their future careers.
So, it helps build those skill sets early. So, I would say, you know, a challenge, but maybe not necessarily a challenge and more something that's helping them develop that skill set.
KN: So, Madeline, jumping off from skill sets there, have you gained any skills in the program or learned anything specific that you feel you might not have if you weren't part of the rotational program?
MR: Yes, I think that you do develop some skills as part of the rotational program. I think as everyone's mentioned, you gain the ability to adapt, adapt to different projects, adapt to different manager styles, adapt to different clients, because you have to be able to change with every division, especially because you're joining projects halfway through. You have to be able to catch up, get up to speed, and determine what's going on. I think another skill you learn is people, how to talk to people, how to deal with different personalities, and things of that nature.
KN: Do you feel the rotational program helped you in zeroing in on your career interests? Do you feel like it has, let's say, enlarged your understanding of HH Angus?
MR: I would say it has. I think that it touches on the company goal of investing in people, because they really are investing in you as an employee. They want you to go through the different teams and find your best fit. For me, personally, I think it has shaped my career goals. I think from the rotational program, I've learned that I want to be more involved with it in my future career, as well as go into more of a managerial role, because I think the managers have helped me so much throughout my rotation process.
KN: Was there a particular project that you worked on during your rotations where you felt like you made a really meaningful contribution?
MR: Yes, one project that I did feel like I made a really meaningful contribution was a harmonic study conducted for an airport.
(14:42 - 19:10)
So, this harmonic study was done through ETAP and, obviously as an electrical new grad, I was really excited to be able to use this software as not everyone gets to use it, and then learning the process of this harmonic study, and then even recently doing a knowledge transfer for other new grads about this harmonic study. So, it's really a full circle moment.
KN: Sounds like a really interesting project. Tula, let me ask you, what personality characteristics do you think help new grads be successful in the program? You've seen a lot of new grads go through the program. How do you, what sorts of traits sort of tend towards success?
TM: I would say definitely showing initiative and just advocating for yourself. Like, just like anything in life, what you put in is what you're going to get out. So, if you are, you know, in your group, talking to your teammates, asking who needs help with what, and always, you know, communicating that you have time, if you do, to take on more work, then you're going to get the most out of your experience and help your team. So, it's a win-win situation for everybody.
KN: Courtney, when you're setting up the program, how do you make sure that each part of the rotation offers a consistent level of learning and engagement for quite a large cohort of new grads?
CF: Yeah, I would say our divisions are busy, our projects are busy, so there's always opportunity for grads to get involved into things that maybe they weren't expecting to when they rotate from division to division.
But I think this is where our learning objective checklists really come into play, because Tula and I are taking a look at the skills and the work that folks are doing in each of their rotations, and really trying to advocate for them with the managers to get exposure to things that we'd like them to see when they're in certain divisions. So, I think it's an ongoing process of monitoring and connecting with their grads and making sure that they're feeling like they're getting meaningful exposure to things that they'd like to see.
KN: So, a new grad arrives at the end of their placement, now what happens? What goes into the decision about where the new grad is going to be permanently assigned, and who participates in that decision?
CF: It's a very collaborative approach to final placements. We use a similar method to a med school pairing or a Waterloo co-op pairing, where we get feedback from the grads where they'd like to see themselves go, and they kind of rank their placements from there. We do the similar process on the management side, where we ask our division leaders to go through the people that they've seen in their divisions and rank accordingly to who might be a good match for their teams. And so, we kind of pair from there.
I will say our past, you know, we're in our fourth cohort now, our past placements have been very seamless, because organically, I think teams find a really good fit with the grads and vice versa. So, it seems to have worked really, really well, where that kind of match and pairing happens very organically. So, look forward to more matching to come.
KN: And I just want to clarify a point for our listeners that once a new grad is assigned permanently to a division, in the future, they still have the opportunity to move into other divisions as opportunities and desire occur, correct?
CF: Yes, that is correct. And that's actually a big benefit of the program as well, because the grads are meeting all of these managers, and they're creating networks in each of our divisions. If the opportunity came up where they felt like they'd like to go and explore another division again, or go back to another team, that relationship's already been fostered, and they have a skill set already, where they worked on those projects.
So, it is helpful, you know, to have that exposure throughout the program, but it does allow for some more flexibility if they'd like to go back to other divisions in the future.
KN: Madeline, what division did you end up being permanently assigned to?
MR: I ended up choosing healthcare and then getting matched with healthcare. So, I'm currently there.
KN: What do you feel the main value of the rotational program has turned out to be for you?
MR: I think the main value is really meeting people in the company and expanding your connections. You get to be able to ask questions and reference people in other divisions that you never would have met if you only stayed in one division. I think that it's also good to be able to learn to change and learn to adapt very early on in your career.
(19:12 - 20:17)
KN: Tula, when you check in with the managers for the program, kind of bouncing off what Madeline just said, and the advantage of knowing a lot of different people, the managers get to know a lot of different students as they're moving through. So, are they finding the program beneficial?
TM: Definitely. As they meet more RPs, they form connections too, with whoever's going through their group, and they know who is skilled and at what. So, it really is just a resource for them, whether it's someone joining their team at their final rotation or maybe down the line joining their team. So, everybody is building their network, not just the RPs. That's great to hear.
KN: Madeline, the last word is going to go to you. For a new grad considering HH Angus as an employer, what would you want to say to them about the rotational program and the benefits it's brought for you?
MR: I think that anyone, any new grad would be fortunate to come to HH Angus and join the rotational program. I think you'll have great opportunities to learn new skills.
(20:18 - 20:54)
I think that you should come open-minded, ready to learn, and take advantage of the experienced team members around you.
KN: That's great. I'm sure Courtney and Tula are gratified to hear that you had such a positive experience, and I think also the next cohort of the new grads who are just starting in the program now will also be very encouraged to hear that there are excellent results associated with that.
We've been speaking with Courtney Fleming, Tula Mitsakis, and Madeline Rowe of HH Angus and Associates. Thank you all for sharing your experience with the rotational program. To our listeners, that wraps up today's episode. Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to connecting with you next time on Expanding the Possible.
(0:09 - 1:47)
Kirsten Nielsen (KN)
Hello, and welcome to Expanding the Possible. I'm Kirsten Nielsen. On today's episode, we're showcasing HH Angus' Rotational Program.
This is a program where new graduate hires are assigned to one of the divisions at HH Angus and, after a set term, they transition or rotate through to other divisions. To explain the ‘why and how’ of that, I'm joined by Courtney Fleming, Human Resources Facilitator for the program, Tula Misakis, who is an Operations Partner in the program and a mentor to new grads, and Madeleine Roll, who is a recent graduate of the program. Courtney, let's start with the core purpose or philosophy behind this initiative.
What was the motivation for HH Angus to launch the Rotational Program?
Courtney Fleming (CF): The decision to create a Rotational Program really came from our desire to enhance the employee experience and set our people up for long-term success. We saw an opportunity to design a program that not only supports retention and engagement but also helps employees build a broad set of skills really early in their careers. At its core, the Rotational Program is about matching people to the right teams and divisions, but also encouraging a big-picture understanding and fostering that innovation and business acumen that folks learn early in their career.
And it also really strengthens our ability to plan for the future by making our workforce more agile and adaptable, while giving managers better visibility into the talent and resources that are available across the firm.
KN: I mentioned in my introduction that the usual term, the usual rotation is about six months, but how long is the overall Rotational Program for new grads?
CF: Yeah, you got it. Six months is our standard rotation time frame, and we do three of those.
(1:47 - 3:04)
KN: So, three six-month rotations for all of our grads coming in. Is this a common type of program in the engineering sector? How does HH Angus' program compare to, say, those of other consulting engineering firms?
CF: No, it's not common at all. The Rotational Program structure is actually quite unique in the industry, and it's a differentiator for us and something that we're hoping to continue to leverage excitement with our grads, but also foster that strong attraction of talent coming into the firm and really encouraging folks to join our program. So, no, it's not common at all.
KN: How do you match a new grad hire to the program? Does that happen when you're in the hiring process with them, and what sort of criteria goes into the decision of who participates?
CF: Yes. So, during our recruiting cycle, we really look for some indicators from the grads about where their skill set might be best utilized in the company. We try to match them into divisions based on that, but really, all of our grads are welcome to go to any of our divisions. We want to ensure that they get the rich experience of trying different divisions and working on different projects and leveraging their skill sets in different ways coming into the Rotational Program. So, we try to align, but also allow for some flexibility for them to be able to rotate and get that experience.
(3:05 - 3:45)
KN: Madeleine, tell us how you came to participate in the Rotational Program. What was that initial part like?
Madeleine Roll (MR): So, initially, I found the Rotational Program at a career fair at Queen's University, so that was really exciting to hear about and, as Courtney touched upon, not many other companies are doing a Rotational Program, so I think it really brings new grads to the company as an interest because you get to try three different jobs in one.
KN: Which divisions were you personally involved with? I mentioned earlier, you're a graduate of the program now, so we're looking back in hindsight, but which ones were you working in?
MR: I have been involved in technology, commercial, and healthcare throughout my time at HH Angus.
(3:46 - 4:57)
KN: So, when you were moving, say you're moving from technology to commercial or technology to healthcare, how did the onboarding process work when you moved from one division to the other?
MR: The onboarding process was quite seamless. What HR does is they set meetings between yourself and the new grad you're taking over, yourself and the new grad who's taking your position, as well as you with your new manager. So, you get to see where you're going, you get to advise someone on who's taking your position, as well as meet with your new manager and discuss your goals for the new division.
KN: Oh, that's a really interesting way to approach it. I didn't realize that you were also collaborating with other grads as they moved around, too. I think that's a really neat aspect of it. Did you find any surprises as you moved from one division to the next? I'm thinking of things like changes in the pace of work or the speed to market for project deliverables. I know, for example, in the commercial division, if you're doing tenant work, the speed to market is much faster than, for example, if you're working in health on a hospital. So, were there changes in that kind of aspect of what you did or the social culture, even within the divisions?
MR: Yeah, I would say there's many different aspects to each different division.
(4:58 - 5:27)
One aspect is that you mentioned is the work speed of the projects, depending on which division you work on and especially which projects you're working on. A project could be anywhere from two years to two months. So, it varies and I think it's really interesting to be on the different types of projects to see one throughout your whole rotation in the two months from start to finish, as well as work on a bigger scale project that's more complicated that has more niche skill sets.
(5:28 - 8:14)
As well as for culture, I think the culture between the different divisions and as well as the different teams can vastly vary. Some people are really outgoing, some people are more to themselves. It's really a great mix and you can find whatever you're looking for.
KN: That's great. How did you balance the learning aspect of it versus delivering value? And I think this is probably true outside the rotational program as well, but how do you balance getting up to speed and also doing the actual work that's expected of you as a new employee?
MR: I think that's a great question. I think it's always a hard balancing act, but I think you really learn by doing.
So, when you get a task that obviously provides value to a project, you'll learn how to do it, especially through mentorship and support throughout the division. I find that whoever assigns you said task will often support you with questions in your learning.
KN: That's great. Tula, when you're looking ahead to a new cohort of grads in the program, what are your responsibilities as a mentor to that group or to an individual?
Tula Mitsakis (TM): So, as a mentor to the group, I schedule time to meet with everybody in the middle of their rotation, just to see how things are going, if they have any feedback that we can take back to HR or operations, just to help modify the program and make it better with time. On an individual level, as a mentor, I'm more focused on a person and what they want to do in their career. That varies from person to person. Some people might want to get their licensure, and I ultimately just provide support to help them get there.
KN: Courtney, how do you ensure that the work that's being done by the new grads in the program has both a training value for them, but it also has sort of real-world productive value for HH Angus in getting the work out the door?
CF: Our grads are all going through a new grad training program at the same time that they're working through the divisions, and this training program can sometimes last up to a year, where they're getting some guidance and some boot camp sessions from our subject matter experts across the firm.
We have a lot of tenure here at HH Angus, so they're leaning on all of those folks for support, but we also encourage them to connect with their teams and their project teams. So, they're asking good questions as they're working through projects and as they're working through problems, but they're also getting that learning from some of our leaders across the firm.
KN: Madeline, as Courtney was just saying, we have a lot of senior people at HH Angus who have decades of very important and significant experience in their area of specialization.
(8:14 - 9:47)
What support or mentorship have you received or did you receive during your rotations?
MR: During my rotations, I received a lot of mentorship, especially in each division. I find that you'll meet people on your team or people who give you tasks, your manager, and you'll form a mentorship bond with them in a conversation to ask questions, to feel comfortable with them, and things like that, as well as expert leads. Often, you can reach out to them, you see them at the coffee maker. It's a very open environment for questions and learning.
KN: Tula, as a mentor, what do you see as kind of a long-term benefit of mentorship?
TM: I mean, it fosters a certain culture of just openness, open communication, and the better we can collaborate internally, the better we're going to be collaborating externally and providing better product to our clients. So, having a mentor and being a mentor are both beneficial for those reasons.
KN: When you're doing the check-in meetings you were talking about with new grads in the middle of their term with a division, is there a formal structure for that? Is it more of an informal conversation? How do you find it typically works?
TM: So, we have both options. It's formal in the sense that in the middle of a rotation, I'll schedule time with each of the RPs to just discuss how things are going. And then, informally, I also just check in as I see people in the office.
(9:47 - 9:56)
I keep that door of communication open. So, if there's any issue or if they have any questions, they can always come to me. So, that's the more informal part of it.
(9:57 - 10:14)
KN: You also have a learning objective list I've heard about. What does that entail?
TM: So, that learning objective checklist is ultimately like a rolling report card, and it's a chance for an RP to record what they have learned in each division that they visit.
(10:15 - 10:41)
And how that benefits them is they can see, okay, I've done XYZ, but I'd really like to learn these other topics. So, they can take that to their manager in their next rotation, and that time will be carved out for them to learn these certain topics that they maybe haven't had a chance to learn. And then, it also benefits the manager because they can see where someone's skill set is and then utilize that for any projects that they might need them for.
(10:42 - 14:42)
KN: That seems important. That's great. Courtney, does HR have feedback channels available to, let's say, both grads and supervisors for the rotational program?
CF: Yes, all of our grads are part of our performance management process, but it's a little bit different with our rotational program because they're doing shorter stints in the divisions as opposed to a full year that we would do our typical performance process with. But the way that we've designed the program is that the grads will set goals at the beginning of their rotations with their managers and, by the end of their rotation, they go through a rotation review, which is quite similar to a performance review to go through their attainment to those goals, discuss any feedback, and share any things that they'd like to see the grad work on going forward. And then, that information is shared manager to manager.
So, when the grad is transitioning to their new manager, the managers will connect and discuss if there's any skill gaps or areas where the grad can get some more focused learning or which projects they may be interested or where their interests lie. And then, the opportunity for the grad to meet with their new manager and their old manager at that time really helps set them up for success so they can set new goals, work on some skills that maybe they've been developing, and continue to kind of grow into their career with us.
KN: That's a great answer, and I think you actually answered my next question about assessment. So, let me ask you instead, are there any common challenges you see for participants as they move between divisions or the things that come up sort of again and again in terms of a challenge and how to manage that turnover?
CF: As Tula had mentioned, one of the challenges that I think our grads face is change. And change can be hard, but it does promote that adaptability and, you know, a skill set for our grads to be able to adjust to a new environment, adjust to a new manager, adjust to a new workload, new projects, new project teams really quickly. And I think as consulting engineers, that really sets them up for success into their future careers.
So, it helps build those skill sets early. So, I would say, you know, a challenge, but maybe not necessarily a challenge and more something that's helping them develop that skill set.
KN: So, Madeline, jumping off from skill sets there, have you gained any skills in the program or learned anything specific that you feel you might not have if you weren't part of the rotational program?
MR: Yes, I think that you do develop some skills as part of the rotational program. I think as everyone's mentioned, you gain the ability to adapt, adapt to different projects, adapt to different manager styles, adapt to different clients, because you have to be able to change with every division, especially because you're joining projects halfway through. You have to be able to catch up, get up to speed, and determine what's going on. I think another skill you learn is people, how to talk to people, how to deal with different personalities, and things of that nature.
KN: Do you feel the rotational program helped you in zeroing in on your career interests? Do you feel like it has, let's say, enlarged your understanding of HH Angus?
MR: I would say it has. I think that it touches on the company goal of investing in people, because they really are investing in you as an employee. They want you to go through the different teams and find your best fit. For me, personally, I think it has shaped my career goals. I think from the rotational program, I've learned that I want to be more involved with it in my future career, as well as go into more of a managerial role, because I think the managers have helped me so much throughout my rotation process.
KN: Was there a particular project that you worked on during your rotations where you felt like you made a really meaningful contribution?
MR: Yes, one project that I did feel like I made a really meaningful contribution was a harmonic study conducted for an airport.
(14:42 - 19:10)
So, this harmonic study was done through ETAP and, obviously as an electrical new grad, I was really excited to be able to use this software as not everyone gets to use it, and then learning the process of this harmonic study, and then even recently doing a knowledge transfer for other new grads about this harmonic study. So, it's really a full circle moment.
KN: Sounds like a really interesting project. Tula, let me ask you, what personality characteristics do you think help new grads be successful in the program? You've seen a lot of new grads go through the program. How do you, what sorts of traits sort of tend towards success?
TM: I would say definitely showing initiative and just advocating for yourself. Like, just like anything in life, what you put in is what you're going to get out. So, if you are, you know, in your group, talking to your teammates, asking who needs help with what, and always, you know, communicating that you have time, if you do, to take on more work, then you're going to get the most out of your experience and help your team. So, it's a win-win situation for everybody.
KN: Courtney, when you're setting up the program, how do you make sure that each part of the rotation offers a consistent level of learning and engagement for quite a large cohort of new grads?
CF: Yeah, I would say our divisions are busy, our projects are busy, so there's always opportunity for grads to get involved into things that maybe they weren't expecting to when they rotate from division to division.
But I think this is where our learning objective checklists really come into play, because Tula and I are taking a look at the skills and the work that folks are doing in each of their rotations, and really trying to advocate for them with the managers to get exposure to things that we'd like them to see when they're in certain divisions. So, I think it's an ongoing process of monitoring and connecting with their grads and making sure that they're feeling like they're getting meaningful exposure to things that they'd like to see.
KN: So, a new grad arrives at the end of their placement, now what happens? What goes into the decision about where the new grad is going to be permanently assigned, and who participates in that decision?
CF: It's a very collaborative approach to final placements. We use a similar method to a med school pairing or a Waterloo co-op pairing, where we get feedback from the grads where they'd like to see themselves go, and they kind of rank their placements from there. We do the similar process on the management side, where we ask our division leaders to go through the people that they've seen in their divisions and rank accordingly to who might be a good match for their teams. And so, we kind of pair from there.
I will say our past, you know, we're in our fourth cohort now, our past placements have been very seamless, because organically, I think teams find a really good fit with the grads and vice versa. So, it seems to have worked really, really well, where that kind of match and pairing happens very organically. So, look forward to more matching to come.
KN: And I just want to clarify a point for our listeners that once a new grad is assigned permanently to a division, in the future, they still have the opportunity to move into other divisions as opportunities and desire occur, correct?
CF: Yes, that is correct. And that's actually a big benefit of the program as well, because the grads are meeting all of these managers, and they're creating networks in each of our divisions. If the opportunity came up where they felt like they'd like to go and explore another division again, or go back to another team, that relationship's already been fostered, and they have a skill set already, where they worked on those projects.
So, it is helpful, you know, to have that exposure throughout the program, but it does allow for some more flexibility if they'd like to go back to other divisions in the future.
KN: Madeline, what division did you end up being permanently assigned to?
MR: I ended up choosing healthcare and then getting matched with healthcare. So, I'm currently there.
KN: What do you feel the main value of the rotational program has turned out to be for you?
MR: I think the main value is really meeting people in the company and expanding your connections. You get to be able to ask questions and reference people in other divisions that you never would have met if you only stayed in one division. I think that it's also good to be able to learn to change and learn to adapt very early on in your career.
(19:12 - 20:17)
KN: Tula, when you check in with the managers for the program, kind of bouncing off what Madeline just said, and the advantage of knowing a lot of different people, the managers get to know a lot of different students as they're moving through. So, are they finding the program beneficial?
TM: Definitely. As they meet more RPs, they form connections too, with whoever's going through their group, and they know who is skilled and at what. So, it really is just a resource for them, whether it's someone joining their team at their final rotation or maybe down the line joining their team. So, everybody is building their network, not just the RPs. That's great to hear.
KN: Madeline, the last word is going to go to you. For a new grad considering HH Angus as an employer, what would you want to say to them about the rotational program and the benefits it's brought for you?
MR: I think that anyone, any new grad would be fortunate to come to HH Angus and join the rotational program. I think you'll have great opportunities to learn new skills.
(20:18 - 20:54)
I think that you should come open-minded, ready to learn, and take advantage of the experienced team members around you.
KN: That's great. I'm sure Courtney and Tula are gratified to hear that you had such a positive experience, and I think also the next cohort of the new grads who are just starting in the program now will also be very encouraged to hear that there are excellent results associated with that.
We've been speaking with Courtney Fleming, Tula Mitsakis, and Madeline Rowe of HH Angus and Associates. Thank you all for sharing your experience with the rotational program. To our listeners, that wraps up today's episode. Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to connecting with you next time on Expanding the Possible.
HH Angus’ unique Rotational Program for new graduate training is the focus of the latest episode of Expanding the Possible. This 18-month program gives new graduates in the Toronto office the opportunity to work across multiple teams and divisions, helping them develop a broad skill set and strong business acumen.
At the conclusion of the program, participants are carefully matched to permanent roles that align with their strengths, interests, and passions.
Featured in this episode are Courtney Fleming, Human Resources Facilitator; Tula Mitsakis, Operations Partner and Mentor; and Madeleine Roll, a recent graduate of the Rotational Program, who share insights into the program’s structure, benefits, and impact.
Episode 14, “Rotational Program for New Graduates”
At the conclusion of the program, participants are carefully matched to permanent roles that align with their strengths, interests, and passions.
Featured in this episode are Courtney Fleming, Human Resources Facilitator; Tula Mitsakis, Operations Partner and Mentor; and Madeleine Roll, a recent graduate of the Rotational Program, who share insights into the program’s structure, benefits, and impact.
Episode 14, “Rotational Program for New Graduates”